Comments on: Corporate Whore

By: ian

ian — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:45:33 +0000

If Yahoo! don’t Screw! Flickr it’ll be the exception that proved the rule. Geocities is not the only example, and don’t think they all involve people from far away from Birmingham. (Declaration of interest: I have previously been shat on by Yahoo! Wankrs.) It’s not as if Flickr is any less prone to “having a massage” now than it ever was. So what have Yahoo! done for Flickr, if the infrastructure’s still as flaky as ever? If you’re making money from adverts, surely Flickr could have done?

As one of the millions of other idiots out there, I’m interested by your focus on closing down the group to your own set of contacts. If so, what do you gain from its vast reach that you couldn’t get elsewhere? Surely these FlickrMeets are simply the equivalent of the local photography club.

I use Flickr to host pictures, because I find the offering works for me. I don’t regard it as some kind of benevolent saviour of the web. I have google for that (please note tongue in cheek).

(My millions of shit photos are here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/whoknowswherethoughtscomefrom/ )

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:41:05 +0000

Another way of looking at this is whether or not Yahoo (Flickr’s owner) is a good corporate citizen. To my way of thinking it doesn’t seem to have any major problems in this respect.

Having read No Logo, I feel strongly about supporting a product that may have been made in a sweatshop and don’t understand why I should have to advertise a product by wearing it (remember the inside out labels a few years back?) The Nike Swoosh annoys me intensely, so I go out of my way to avoid it. But other products, particularly those marketed by consumer-responsible companies like REI (USA) and MEC (Canada), tend to be just as good, carry little or no logo, are a lot cheaper, and give me the satisfaction that they were probably not made in a sweatshop.

I must admit I don’t think Yahoo when using Flickr except when having to log back on. And I don’t really mind advertising the Flickr community because I would like more people to join in – I and they should benefit, right?

As a small group moderator I find Flickr’s rules to more like guidelines. There is a lot of experience out there for me to draw on and make my own decisions about. And in general, the user is definitely in control.

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:12:59 +0000

It’s an interesting one. I feel much the same about Blogger, as a part of Google, and MySpace, as a part of the Murdoch empire, but try to convince myself that I’m simply using their “tools” to create something rather than actively promoting them and being used myself. I think you could get away with an anti-Blogger Blogger blog, but then there’s the question of whether that’s of any significance – you’re still using the service, so in that sense no matter what the content of your blog you’re still supporting them. As you say, even accepting the impossibility of ideological purity, there are choices you can make and trying to negotiate the minefield is difficult.

But I can see that your situation with Flickr is subtly different and how you might feel you’ve somehow found yourself as a rep – I’d feel a similar sense of unease, I think.

By: Pete Ashton

Pete Ashton — Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:41:10 +0000

Re: linking back. I doubt it. It would require much to much work and the publicity would be bad. There are currently 191,778,493 photos on Flickr with a million more arriving every few days. That’s a lot of photos to keep tabs on and it’s probably not worth it. But putting in that reminder about linking back does make a difference.

By: Jinja

Jinja — Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:00:02 +0000

You can resolutely work outside the system, or work inside it. (i.e. you pay taxes, yes?) And if you pay Flickr for a pro account, you are a customer and client.

What’s disconcerting to me is that Flickr now reminds you to link back to their photo page when you publicly post photos, as per their rules. I know lots of people who don’t link back. The terms of service are pretty much in their favor. So could this result in arbitrary suspensions and deletions some day?

By: Pete Ashton

Pete Ashton — Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:58:12 +0000

I think there’s a distinction, and indeed a fine line, between using a service and promoting a service. It could be said that my use of Flickr alone is a form a promotion because I entice my readers into it when I post stuff on this blog (not to mention linking to other things there).

Something I should have mentioned in this post was a phone call I got before the last Flickrmeet. I put my mobile number on the July meet thread so people who got lost could call me but this guy used it to find out what the meet would be like in the context of wanting to talk to people about whether Flickr was worth using. Again, pretty innocent, but the sense that I was acting in some capacity as a rep for the service was very mildly unnerving, especially as I’d put myself in this position voluntarily. Not to mention it’s unpaid.

It’s not that I’m after ideological purity. I’m just trying to articulate a feeling I’ve got about this. Don’t want to live in a remote jungle!

The main reason for participating in Flickr (as you put it – I’d say I create stuff with it rather that participate, but that’s just semantics) is because there are good photographers who aren’t full of shit on there. It’s a nice middle ground between the pro/art scene and the amateur scene and it suits me fine. I don’t know of any other photo sites that aren’t either hardcore critical or bolocksy cameraphone.

Cultural Jamming makes me smile. It’s a kinda naive idea that that sort of thing works these days. The fact that Flickr is full of anti-Flickr groups pretty much says it all. By playing with the brand you become part of the brand, co-opted by your own actions. Flickr is more like a map or filter that my photos fit into which brings them to life, just as the network of blogs brings my tedious writings to life and puts them in a variety of contexts. It’s all about the intertwingle.

End of the day this is not about Flickr or the people who use it. It’s about me and my surprise at finding myself a willing unpaid corporate shill and the fact that I’ll continue to be one even with this awareness.

By: dp

dp — Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:38:09 +0000

Jeez, so harsh on yourself. The fact is, that as a product of ‘advanced’ civilisation, you cannot escape it. There’s no such thing as ideological purity, nor ‘is there any way of getting away from it all’. You cannot even go live in a remote jungle, because you’ll be carrying your legacy with you. So the options left to us include making deliberate choices about what we support, even though those choices require further participation in destructive, oppressive social processes. It can boil down to supporting the preservation or development of alternatives, for whatever little bit they may do.

So why participate in Flickr when there are other photo sharing sites? Is it that the primary or secondary differences among them are rather insignificant? Or is it because you can do things with your Flickr badges that strike fear in to the hearts of corporate media relations people? That Flickr is yours to do with as you please once you’ve got your little piece of it? A bit of culture jamming can hardly go amiss.