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	<title>Comments on: Screw Tolkien</title>
	<atom:link href="http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/</link>
	<description>June 2000 to June 2010</description>
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		<title>By: Pete Ashton</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t you know? &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.birminghamitsnotshit.co.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Birmingham: It&#039;s Not Shit&lt;/a&gt;.

And it isn&#039;t. A lot has changed over the last decade or so.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t you know? <a href="http://www.birminghamitsnotshit.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">Birmingham: It&#8217;s Not Shit</a>.</p>
<p>And it isn&#8217;t. A lot has changed over the last decade or so.</p>
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		<title>By: matthew</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1851</link>
		<dc:creator>matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1851</guid>
		<description>Without meaning any offence at all to any Brummies (Brummies are quite nice, at least in general, and the ones I&#039;ve actually met), Birmingham is a bit of a shithole, from my experience. But it&#039;s not as bad as Sheffield.

And building a tree out of &lt;em&gt;steel&lt;/em&gt;? Why not just plant an actual tree?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without meaning any offence at all to any Brummies (Brummies are quite nice, at least in general, and the ones I&#8217;ve actually met), Birmingham is a bit of a shithole, from my experience. But it&#8217;s not as bad as Sheffield.</p>
<p>And building a tree out of <em>steel</em>? Why not just plant an actual tree?!</p>
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		<title>By: moseleyblogger</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1850</link>
		<dc:creator>moseleyblogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1850</guid>
		<description>Karen says there&#039;s a tree near the Ladywood Art Centre that&#039;s festooned with old shoes.  I daresay that the Ent will quickly develop a similar set of attire. Not that I have any old shoes laying around waiting for some new purpose in life, mind you.

The Easter Cross on the green looks decidedly underwhelming in relation to the Ent proposals. Does that mean a victory of pagans over christians? Or does it mean that there&#039;ll have to be a bigger - a much bigger - cross?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen says there&#8217;s a tree near the Ladywood Art Centre that&#8217;s festooned with old shoes.  I daresay that the Ent will quickly develop a similar set of attire. Not that I have any old shoes laying around waiting for some new purpose in life, mind you.</p>
<p>The Easter Cross on the green looks decidedly underwhelming in relation to the Ent proposals. Does that mean a victory of pagans over christians? Or does it mean that there&#8217;ll have to be a bigger &#8211; a much bigger &#8211; cross?</p>
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		<title>By: J. Walsh</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1849</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1849</guid>
		<description>That was a great blog post Pete. Tolkein was a virulently anti-modern writer. That his barmy ideas about pastoral idylls and the inherent evil of industry and all it brings (such as wealth, working class political agency and so on) are so popular today says something quite sad about society.

I&#039;m off to tug my forelocks, guv&#039;nor.

J...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a great blog post Pete. Tolkein was a virulently anti-modern writer. That his barmy ideas about pastoral idylls and the inherent evil of industry and all it brings (such as wealth, working class political agency and so on) are so popular today says something quite sad about society.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m off to tug my forelocks, guv&#8217;nor.</p>
<p>J&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1848</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1848</guid>
		<description>Ahh I do love a good ranting post. I don&#039;t really have much to say on the topic itself but I DO think you are right that we should all have one thing which we are allowed to &quot;go off on&quot; as and when and HOW we feel.

I&#039;ve still to find mine though... slowly narrowing it down... currently have a few hundreds such issues (hey, everyone ELSE is an idiot... right?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh I do love a good ranting post. I don&#8217;t really have much to say on the topic itself but I DO think you are right that we should all have one thing which we are allowed to &#8220;go off on&#8221; as and when and HOW we feel.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve still to find mine though&#8230; slowly narrowing it down&#8230; currently have a few hundreds such issues (hey, everyone ELSE is an idiot&#8230; right?)</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1847</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1847</guid>
		<description>Lloyd and Cadbury - names that still mean something significant in the 21st Century and Quakers are not exactly the most publicity-prone folk in the world!  The point is, rather, that Birmingham, as an anti-establishment focal point, encouraged people like Cadbury and Chamberlain to do the right thing.

But I really like the idea of the floozie, the iron man and the ent all in the same place as. . . . Queen Victoria!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lloyd and Cadbury &#8211; names that still mean something significant in the 21st Century and Quakers are not exactly the most publicity-prone folk in the world!  The point is, rather, that Birmingham, as an anti-establishment focal point, encouraged people like Cadbury and Chamberlain to do the right thing.</p>
<p>But I really like the idea of the floozie, the iron man and the ent all in the same place as. . . . Queen Victoria!</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Ashton</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1846</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1846</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sturge&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joseph Sturge&lt;/a&gt;, slavery abolitionist and general good egg, though he&#039;s somewhat obscure at the moment. This should all change when my flatmate&#039;s current job is completed. In the meanwhile, &lt;a href=&quot;http://flickr.com/photos/peteashton/sets/72057594081557037/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s some photos of his statue&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sturge" rel="nofollow">Joseph Sturge</a>, slavery abolitionist and general good egg, though he&#8217;s somewhat obscure at the moment. This should all change when my flatmate&#8217;s current job is completed. In the meanwhile, <a href="http://flickr.com/photos/peteashton/sets/72057594081557037/" rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s some photos of his statue</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: etat</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>etat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 01:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>That statue has been taken away for refinishing or summat, and so has the statue of Thomas Attwood in Chamberlain Square. 

Since there&#039;s already an Iron Man down there, perhaps the Steel Tree could go somewhere nearby.

Quakers. Who, besides the Lloyd family and the Cadburys? I haven&#039;t heard any other famous names identified as Quakers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That statue has been taken away for refinishing or summat, and so has the statue of Thomas Attwood in Chamberlain Square. </p>
<p>Since there&#8217;s already an Iron Man down there, perhaps the Steel Tree could go somewhere nearby.</p>
<p>Quakers. Who, besides the Lloyd family and the Cadburys? I haven&#8217;t heard any other famous names identified as Quakers.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1844</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1844</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the Birmingham Riots actually ended the Age of Enlightenment, they only forced Priestley&#039;s departure to America.  But before 1900 things were beginning to change and the influence of the Lunar Society began to wane considerably.  I suggest a hundred years of Victorian influence started to rise, followed by the quakers and Joe Chamberlain starting the great reforms at the beginning of the 20th Century.  There&#039;s about a hundred year gap between the two great phases of Birmingham&#039;s (recent) history.

BTW, etat, there is a fine statue (I think it&#039;s still in front of the old registry office on Broad Street) of Boulton, Watt and Murdoch - admittedly the more industrialist-minded of the Lunar Men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the Birmingham Riots actually ended the Age of Enlightenment, they only forced Priestley&#8217;s departure to America.  But before 1900 things were beginning to change and the influence of the Lunar Society began to wane considerably.  I suggest a hundred years of Victorian influence started to rise, followed by the quakers and Joe Chamberlain starting the great reforms at the beginning of the 20th Century.  There&#8217;s about a hundred year gap between the two great phases of Birmingham&#8217;s (recent) history.</p>
<p>BTW, etat, there is a fine statue (I think it&#8217;s still in front of the old registry office on Broad Street) of Boulton, Watt and Murdoch &#8211; admittedly the more industrialist-minded of the Lunar Men.</p>
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		<title>By: etat</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1843</link>
		<dc:creator>etat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1843</guid>
		<description>A century of Victorians? I thought it was four days of rioting. Followed by a century of victorians, of course.

But yeah, it would be so much better to have a statue of  some locally-Enlightened-person or people. Or a big hammer. Or a horse. Or maybe just plant some *real* trees. Fifty of them right there on the village  &#039;green&#039;. Giant &lt;i&gt;leylandii&lt;/i&gt;, perhaps. Tolkien would have liked that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A century of Victorians? I thought it was four days of rioting. Followed by a century of victorians, of course.</p>
<p>But yeah, it would be so much better to have a statue of  some locally-Enlightened-person or people. Or a big hammer. Or a horse. Or maybe just plant some *real* trees. Fifty of them right there on the village  &#8216;green&#8217;. Giant <i>leylandii</i>, perhaps. Tolkien would have liked that.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1842</guid>
		<description>One more thing - The most important people in Birmingham&#039;s history are probably the members of the Lunar Society.  They drove the Age of Enlightenment to new heights that only a century of Victorians could destroy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing &#8211; The most important people in Birmingham&#8217;s history are probably the members of the Lunar Society.  They drove the Age of Enlightenment to new heights that only a century of Victorians could destroy!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/comment-page-1/#comment-1841</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2006/04/screw_tolkien/#comment-1841</guid>
		<description>I agree with you with respect to the Birmingham Tolkein Fanatics (BTFs).  Tolkein got two things out of Brum - an education and a priest-father-figure who made sure he got that education.  He didn&#039;t give much back though I believe he did work hard to promote preserving both Moseley Bog and Sarehole Mill (though maybe he was shamed into doing so after selling so many books!)

There seems to be a concensus among his biographers and his son that the twin towers as well as Sarehole Mill did inspire Tolkein as he wrote the Hobbit, etc., but in reality these are merely props to paint the universal picture of good versus evil.

As to the Shire, it is far more likely that his mother&#039;s family, the Staffords, who hailed from the Evesham area, influenced his interpretation of Hobbitland.  In fact Bag End really does exist some distance west of Alcester.  And when in Oxford he enjoyed walking in North Oxfordshire.  There is a place on the road between Chipping Norton and Moreton-in-Marsh where a pillar of limestone is called the &quot;Four Counties Stone&quot; representing where Oxfordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire all meet (or met at one time).  This has an uncanny resemblence to the center of the Shire (which consisted of four &quot;farthings&quot;).  So I suggest the Shire is located further south than Hall Green, etc.

The whole question of trees is interesting.  Tolkein apparently did love trees and loved &quot;Leafy Warwickshire&quot;.  He saw the hammer of Birmingham&#039;s industry coming down on his beloved Forest of Arden (though in actual fact most of Arden&#039;s oaks were long since gone to build the British Navy).  When you drive up the Stratford Road through Shirley, Hall Green and SparkHill/SparkBrook it is hard to imagine that this was once a royal forest.  A hundred years ago Hall Green was green but the suburbs were fast encroaching.

Tolkein never did anything for Birmingham other than lend his name to the preservation projects noted above.  But his name is good for tourism so it has been over-used to the point of nausea.  The steel Ent is an interesting parody of Tolkein&#039;s acute awareness that industry was destroying the countryside.  But how much better the living tree/monster at the Custard Factory to represent the concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you with respect to the Birmingham Tolkein Fanatics (BTFs).  Tolkein got two things out of Brum &#8211; an education and a priest-father-figure who made sure he got that education.  He didn&#8217;t give much back though I believe he did work hard to promote preserving both Moseley Bog and Sarehole Mill (though maybe he was shamed into doing so after selling so many books!)</p>
<p>There seems to be a concensus among his biographers and his son that the twin towers as well as Sarehole Mill did inspire Tolkein as he wrote the Hobbit, etc., but in reality these are merely props to paint the universal picture of good versus evil.</p>
<p>As to the Shire, it is far more likely that his mother&#8217;s family, the Staffords, who hailed from the Evesham area, influenced his interpretation of Hobbitland.  In fact Bag End really does exist some distance west of Alcester.  And when in Oxford he enjoyed walking in North Oxfordshire.  There is a place on the road between Chipping Norton and Moreton-in-Marsh where a pillar of limestone is called the &#8220;Four Counties Stone&#8221; representing where Oxfordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Gloucestershire all meet (or met at one time).  This has an uncanny resemblence to the center of the Shire (which consisted of four &#8220;farthings&#8221;).  So I suggest the Shire is located further south than Hall Green, etc.</p>
<p>The whole question of trees is interesting.  Tolkein apparently did love trees and loved &#8220;Leafy Warwickshire&#8221;.  He saw the hammer of Birmingham&#8217;s industry coming down on his beloved Forest of Arden (though in actual fact most of Arden&#8217;s oaks were long since gone to build the British Navy).  When you drive up the Stratford Road through Shirley, Hall Green and SparkHill/SparkBrook it is hard to imagine that this was once a royal forest.  A hundred years ago Hall Green was green but the suburbs were fast encroaching.</p>
<p>Tolkein never did anything for Birmingham other than lend his name to the preservation projects noted above.  But his name is good for tourism so it has been over-used to the point of nausea.  The steel Ent is an interesting parody of Tolkein&#8217;s acute awareness that industry was destroying the countryside.  But how much better the living tree/monster at the Custard Factory to represent the concept.</p>
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