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	<title>Comments on: Bigger than Doonesbury</title>
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	<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/</link>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3635</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3635</guid>
		<description>&quot;Doonesbury gets by on being political and vaguely lefty (for America) but is about 80% filler.&quot; Um. Well, when I look at most &quot;new&quot; strips, there&#039;s so much less in them than the typical GBT fare. In fact, I think his use of four panels to get across complex and pointed humour is nothing short of brilliant. And he&#039;s managed to stay &lt;i&gt;above&lt;/i&gt; politics himself while having characters deeply involved politically and directly in politics (some &quot;lefty&quot;, some right wing).

Perhaps - and I don&#039;t mean to put words on your blog - you&#039;re just assuming that because he&#039;s been skewering the establishment for over 35 years he must be past it. But that&#039;d just be... ageist? Change for change&#039;s sake is always wrong.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Doonesbury gets by on being political and vaguely lefty (for America) but is about 80% filler.&#8221; Um. Well, when I look at most &#8220;new&#8221; strips, there&#8217;s so much less in them than the typical GBT fare. In fact, I think his use of four panels to get across complex and pointed humour is nothing short of brilliant. And he&#8217;s managed to stay <i>above</i> politics himself while having characters deeply involved politically and directly in politics (some &#8220;lefty&#8221;, some right wing).</p>
<p>Perhaps &#8211; and I don&#8217;t mean to put words on your blog &#8211; you&#8217;re just assuming that because he&#8217;s been skewering the establishment for over 35 years he must be past it. But that&#8217;d just be&#8230; ageist? Change for change&#8217;s sake is always wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: SM</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3634</link>
		<dc:creator>SM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3634</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an apology proper inside today&#039;s G2, and it gets mentioned in todays Steve Bell strip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an apology proper inside today&#8217;s G2, and it gets mentioned in todays Steve Bell strip.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Ashton</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3633</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3633</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not an either/or. PBF is still going to run along with some other stuff. In fact after this furore I think we might well see an increase in comics in G2.

And like I said, this wasn&#039;t about Doonesbury per se - it&#039;s the principle of the G showing that at the end of the day the most expendable part of the paper is the comics. 

I was cool with the decision - things change after all - until I discovered it was purely done for space reasons. That&#039;s when I flew off the handle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not an either/or. PBF is still going to run along with some other stuff. In fact after this furore I think we might well see an increase in comics in G2.</p>
<p>And like I said, this wasn&#8217;t about Doonesbury per se &#8211; it&#8217;s the principle of the G showing that at the end of the day the most expendable part of the paper is the comics. </p>
<p>I was cool with the decision &#8211; things change after all &#8211; until I discovered it was purely done for space reasons. That&#8217;s when I flew off the handle.</p>
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		<title>By: bse</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3632</link>
		<dc:creator>bse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3632</guid>
		<description>Personally I&#039;d much rather have Perry Bible Fellowship in there. Doonesbury gets by on being political and vaguely lefty (for America) but is about 80% filler. I&#039;d actually like them to have taken the opportunity to bump Doonesbury and Steve Bell and got some new people in that haven&#039;t been hacking out the same in jokes for 30 years. I really like Dix who does some fill-in work when Bell is away, and I think Steve Bell&#039;s editorial cartoons are vastly superior to his stripwork, especially in the new colours.

Oh well, the same old jaded shite wins again, so much for an all-new Guardian. 
(for the record, the headlines look wack and don&#039;t scan well)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I&#8217;d much rather have Perry Bible Fellowship in there. Doonesbury gets by on being political and vaguely lefty (for America) but is about 80% filler. I&#8217;d actually like them to have taken the opportunity to bump Doonesbury and Steve Bell and got some new people in that haven&#8217;t been hacking out the same in jokes for 30 years. I really like Dix who does some fill-in work when Bell is away, and I think Steve Bell&#8217;s editorial cartoons are vastly superior to his stripwork, especially in the new colours.</p>
<p>Oh well, the same old jaded shite wins again, so much for an all-new Guardian.<br />
(for the record, the headlines look wack and don&#8217;t scan well)</p>
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		<title>By: monocat</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3631</link>
		<dc:creator>monocat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3631</guid>
		<description>oh boy
I was thinking along these - it&#039;s just stupid edtorial &amp; design decesion putting comics again at the bottom of the shitheap again &amp; pointing out that Ive popped a wee rant on their 
a href=&quot;http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/editors/archives/2005/09/12/your_first_reaction.html&quot;&gt;your_first_reaction along the lines of:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
hm - cartoons always seem to be the last thing on the design/editorial mind in these cases of &#039;design upheaval&#039; &amp; Doonsbury seems to have lost, basically through lack of consideration...

Which as usual puts cartoons &amp; comics to the bottom of the heap again - which is kind of ironic, historically, they being so important to newspapers once upon an epoch...

Which again (from another Point of view) is kind of ironic as I see so many, many good comics (sequential) art going around at the moment - Jonathan Edwards (underused by The Guardian as a illustrator), Tom Gauld, Dix, Andi Watson, John Allison just being a few names you might (should) know Herc, Matt Abbiss, Gary Northfield, wiLbur (perhaps further down the &#039;register&#039; &amp; oh - a great long list of more &amp; more &amp; more actual UK comics people who could, given incentive, produce a really lovely whole page of daily comics for you (probably with some &#039;rotation&#039;)

Which is ironic, because this comics thing s getting that little bit more respectable media coverage - (ware/mcsweeny/clowes - oh - they&#039;re american... silly me... - but doonsbury is as well... but...)

Which is ironic, because the Guardian is  one of those places where I would have though that there might just be that willingness to experiment, it having something of a media savvy audience who might well actually appreciate such a page of comics...


ah well

at least someone remember Steve Bell does a cartoon strip as well as editorial cartoons &amp; squeezed a little room in there...

I mean - it couldn&#039;t do any harm - a little experimental thing - get Paul Gravett, or Frank Wynne (or me even) to see if a weeks worth can be put together

could it?  



really?





...?



&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
&lt;i&gt;reproduced in full through lack of confidence that it won&#039;t be edited out&lt;/i&gt;
&amp; there you are spouting off in a similar vein - which is kinda gratifying - but I came to the obvious conclusion already

I really hope that they pick up on a challenge - I really want to see something like that - I always have - the optimist in me yearns for it.

yeah - the Perry Bible Fellowship is sorta funny - it made me laugh a few times when I read it back when - good use of juxtaposition, but really that&#039;s the &#039;gag&#039; there - that&#039;s yer lot... - but it&#039;s not like - a UK person... imagine getting Ralphie to write something with someone who could translate his timing? (I only say that Ralphie writing, because I know darn well they&#039;d balk at his drawings - not seeing the subtlety in the simplicity)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh boy<br />
I was thinking along these &#8211; it&#8217;s just stupid edtorial &#038; design decesion putting comics again at the bottom of the shitheap again &#038; pointing out that Ive popped a wee rant on their<br />
a href=&#8221;http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/editors/archives/2005/09/12/your_first_reaction.html&#8221;>your_first_reaction along the lines of:</p>
<blockquote><p>
hm &#8211; cartoons always seem to be the last thing on the design/editorial mind in these cases of &#8216;design upheaval&#8217; &#038; Doonsbury seems to have lost, basically through lack of consideration&#8230;</p>
<p>Which as usual puts cartoons &#038; comics to the bottom of the heap again &#8211; which is kind of ironic, historically, they being so important to newspapers once upon an epoch&#8230;</p>
<p>Which again (from another Point of view) is kind of ironic as I see so many, many good comics (sequential) art going around at the moment &#8211; Jonathan Edwards (underused by The Guardian as a illustrator), Tom Gauld, Dix, Andi Watson, John Allison just being a few names you might (should) know Herc, Matt Abbiss, Gary Northfield, wiLbur (perhaps further down the &#8216;register&#8217; &#038; oh &#8211; a great long list of more &#038; more &#038; more actual UK comics people who could, given incentive, produce a really lovely whole page of daily comics for you (probably with some &#8216;rotation&#8217;)</p>
<p>Which is ironic, because this comics thing s getting that little bit more respectable media coverage &#8211; (ware/mcsweeny/clowes &#8211; oh &#8211; they&#8217;re american&#8230; silly me&#8230; &#8211; but doonsbury is as well&#8230; but&#8230;)</p>
<p>Which is ironic, because the Guardian is  one of those places where I would have though that there might just be that willingness to experiment, it having something of a media savvy audience who might well actually appreciate such a page of comics&#8230;</p>
<p>ah well</p>
<p>at least someone remember Steve Bell does a cartoon strip as well as editorial cartoons &#038; squeezed a little room in there&#8230;</p>
<p>I mean &#8211; it couldn&#8217;t do any harm &#8211; a little experimental thing &#8211; get Paul Gravett, or Frank Wynne (or me even) to see if a weeks worth can be put together</p>
<p>could it?  </p>
<p>really?</p>
<p>&#8230;?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><i>reproduced in full through lack of confidence that it won&#8217;t be edited out</i><br />
&#038; there you are spouting off in a similar vein &#8211; which is kinda gratifying &#8211; but I came to the obvious conclusion already</p>
<p>I really hope that they pick up on a challenge &#8211; I really want to see something like that &#8211; I always have &#8211; the optimist in me yearns for it.</p>
<p>yeah &#8211; the Perry Bible Fellowship is sorta funny &#8211; it made me laugh a few times when I read it back when &#8211; good use of juxtaposition, but really that&#8217;s the &#8216;gag&#8217; there &#8211; that&#8217;s yer lot&#8230; &#8211; but it&#8217;s not like &#8211; a UK person&#8230; imagine getting Ralphie to write something with someone who could translate his timing? (I only say that Ralphie writing, because I know darn well they&#8217;d balk at his drawings &#8211; not seeing the subtlety in the simplicity)</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Ashton</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3630</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3630</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what G2 editor Ian Katz wrote:

&quot;OK, OK. I&#039;m coming out with my hands in the air. I&#039;m walking...very...slowly. Please don&#039;t shoot! I was the man who bumped Doonesbury from the new G2 and who, as several of you have pointed out, failed even to extend the courtesy of warning you in advance. Apologies for the last bit for starters. Let me explain. When we decided to switch to the smaller half berliner format for g2 (which brings far more advantages than disadvantages) it was quickly clear that some bits of the section would be squeezed for space, even though the overall space in the new G2 is the same as in the current one. It&#039;s about the way the pages fit together: if you put two strips on a single page, it doesn&#039;t leave space for anything else remotely substantial. We tried various combinations of strips and crossword and copy and by far the most successful was the one that we&#039;ve used on the back page of G2. Some of you have been grumpy about the column that takes up some of the space on the back page but over the week I think you&#039;ll see some old favourites in that slot, and some new columns that I think you&#039;ll grow to love. Obviously design problems would not have been enough alone to warrant dropping Doonesbury - after all design is meant to enable you to fit what you want in the paper, not dictate what goes in. But the design problems got me wondering how many people actually read it. I&#039;ve never been a regular follower of the strip - though I&#039;ve always appreciated it&#039;s acuteness - and it often seemed to me to be symptomatic of an obsession with all things American in the UK media that sometimes seems to skew our coverage away from the rest of the world. I wondered too if the commitment to running Doonsebury daily was getting in the way of developing new cartooning talent closer to home. Like some of you who have posted here, I&#039;m a fan of Dix and wanted to find him a more regular home in the Guardian - he will have a weekly slot in the new G2. So will the brilliant Perry Bible Fellowship, by a long way the funniest new strip I have seen in years.(Before you all point out that means we must have space for Doonsebury, I should explain that it&#039;s much easier to find weekly slots - there are always one or two holes in any newspaper over the course of a week.) So, as I say, I began wondering, and asking around, about how many people actually read Doonesbury. The vast majority of people I asked - and we asked all those who looked at dummies of the new paper during the research leading up to launch - said they did not. One or two wise heads said touch it at your peril. They - and you lot - were right, and I was wrong. Happily this particular error of judgement (unlike many of the countless others I have made) is easily put right: Doonesbury will be back in G2 from Monday. We&#039;ll run a catch-up omnibus for the week on Friday and start the daily strips again next week. (I hope you&#039;ll bear with us for a few days till then - I think it would be better to find it a good home, than squueze it into the first crack we can lever open.) And I&#039;m sorry, once again, that I made you - and the hundreds of fellow fans who have called our helpline or mailed our comments address - so cross. The good news is that we now know just how strongly you feel about it and no damn fool features editor is going to mess with it - for at least 25 years. Now I&#039;m going home, if I can just get off this sword.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what G2 editor Ian Katz wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;OK, OK. I&#8217;m coming out with my hands in the air. I&#8217;m walking&#8230;very&#8230;slowly. Please don&#8217;t shoot! I was the man who bumped Doonesbury from the new G2 and who, as several of you have pointed out, failed even to extend the courtesy of warning you in advance. Apologies for the last bit for starters. Let me explain. When we decided to switch to the smaller half berliner format for g2 (which brings far more advantages than disadvantages) it was quickly clear that some bits of the section would be squeezed for space, even though the overall space in the new G2 is the same as in the current one. It&#8217;s about the way the pages fit together: if you put two strips on a single page, it doesn&#8217;t leave space for anything else remotely substantial. We tried various combinations of strips and crossword and copy and by far the most successful was the one that we&#8217;ve used on the back page of G2. Some of you have been grumpy about the column that takes up some of the space on the back page but over the week I think you&#8217;ll see some old favourites in that slot, and some new columns that I think you&#8217;ll grow to love. Obviously design problems would not have been enough alone to warrant dropping Doonesbury &#8211; after all design is meant to enable you to fit what you want in the paper, not dictate what goes in. But the design problems got me wondering how many people actually read it. I&#8217;ve never been a regular follower of the strip &#8211; though I&#8217;ve always appreciated it&#8217;s acuteness &#8211; and it often seemed to me to be symptomatic of an obsession with all things American in the UK media that sometimes seems to skew our coverage away from the rest of the world. I wondered too if the commitment to running Doonsebury daily was getting in the way of developing new cartooning talent closer to home. Like some of you who have posted here, I&#8217;m a fan of Dix and wanted to find him a more regular home in the Guardian &#8211; he will have a weekly slot in the new G2. So will the brilliant Perry Bible Fellowship, by a long way the funniest new strip I have seen in years.(Before you all point out that means we must have space for Doonsebury, I should explain that it&#8217;s much easier to find weekly slots &#8211; there are always one or two holes in any newspaper over the course of a week.) So, as I say, I began wondering, and asking around, about how many people actually read Doonesbury. The vast majority of people I asked &#8211; and we asked all those who looked at dummies of the new paper during the research leading up to launch &#8211; said they did not. One or two wise heads said touch it at your peril. They &#8211; and you lot &#8211; were right, and I was wrong. Happily this particular error of judgement (unlike many of the countless others I have made) is easily put right: Doonesbury will be back in G2 from Monday. We&#8217;ll run a catch-up omnibus for the week on Friday and start the daily strips again next week. (I hope you&#8217;ll bear with us for a few days till then &#8211; I think it would be better to find it a good home, than squueze it into the first crack we can lever open.) And I&#8217;m sorry, once again, that I made you &#8211; and the hundreds of fellow fans who have called our helpline or mailed our comments address &#8211; so cross. The good news is that we now know just how strongly you feel about it and no damn fool features editor is going to mess with it &#8211; for at least 25 years. Now I&#8217;m going home, if I can just get off this sword.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: anna</title>
		<link>http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/comment-page-1/#comment-3629</link>
		<dc:creator>anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashton.com/2005/09/bigger_than_doonesbury/#comment-3629</guid>
		<description>Hey Pete, 

Check back at that editor&#039;s blog post.

You won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Pete, </p>
<p>Check back at that editor&#8217;s blog post.</p>
<p>You won.</p>
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