“they are certainly just taking the opportunity to laugh at working class people” – what I’m saying is a hell of a lot of people who started using that word in the last year or so are doing just that, using it as a class label.

Mark regarding the NF and BNP flag thing, I wasn’t aware that they were using the Union jack again. All the ones in London seemed to be firmly stuck on the St George Cross last time I saw them marching down oxford st. Thats why I wrote that.

Oh and Dave, I’ve only ever worked as an “exploited service industry worker” so the “pose as a right on middle class liberal” is a good look. Thanks for that.

The whole thing I was saying is that I don’t like reading the term because every time I see it being used now its just as a class term, this is in London where I live, that is just whate I see, and like I said, if you ain’t mean it like that, then I’m not talking about you. Done.

I was talking about the Union flag because that’s what I see the NF and BNP using. The UNION flag is the British flag. So back up and start again before you spin off into a silly rant about regions.

And your splitting hairs over the chav/burberry debate is laughable.

Your views may be correct for your life/area/experience but that doesn’t make them correct for mine. It goes both ways so get off your high horse. I’ll happily label a thirty year old yob a chav – so it’s not some anti yoof agenda. I see men old enough to be grandparents acting like chavs in certain places – it’s an attitude that certain people are happy to adopt. The funny thing is – they’d laugh at you defending them.

What the heck IS working class anyway? Are you are talking about the marginalalised social group that scab off society, don’t work, don’t want to work, and just come in to my housing office demands their “rights”? Working class no longer has any meaning. The traditional working class jobs have all but gone now. The exploited service industry workers could be the new working class, but I do not label them as Chavs.

Of course you are more than welcome to pose as a right on middle class liberal all you want, but don’t attempt to make the Chav label a Class label because it aint!

uh-huh, yep and my national identity is British NOT English. I’ve never felt English in my life. I have nothing more in common with someone from Newcastle than I do with someone in Carlisle.

“When a Burberry clad yob is smashing up your local telephone box or hassling people that are minding their own business – feel free to put it down to prejudice – I’ll simply believe they’re idiots that don’t bother to use their brains.”

What does this have to do with clothing? No one in my area wears burberry, I don’t think we have telephone boxes anymore either, ALL the kids wear hoodies, some of them are chiefs and some of them are good kids, what they ALL are is KIDS, who need to be involved in society and not banned/moved/dressed up/stereotyped by adults. Kids do enough of that themselves.

You may have had the debate to your hearts content but I sell rich media types “Chav joke” greetings cards every day and they are certainly just taking the opportunity to laugh at working class people. Maybe you aren’t, maybe you are on a whole other level, but the debate isn’t over.

> and there nothing like a hoodie to make a cute girl cuter.

And I thought *my* tastes in girls was bizarre…

Perhaps therein lies the problem. We now rely so heavily on CCTV surveillance. Real police on the beat would not need to worry about yobs wearing hoods. And by association the rest of the public wouldn’t have to worry either. Real police on the beat – now there’s a radical thought!

Do we really need to go through this whole Chav debate again? The fact remains – there are people who relish a certain lifestyle and attitude and it has nothing to do with prejudice against them. When a Burberry clad yob is smashing up your local telephone box or hassling people that are minding their own business – feel free to put it down to prejudice – I’ll simply believe they’re idiots that don’t bother to use their brains.

And feel free to abandon your flag – let the BNP take it and then feel the shame when the whole world relates the two together. Whether you like it or not you are still judged on a global level by your national identity and it’s up to you to either change or preserve it. Letting it fall into the hands of your “enemy” is no solution.

“My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one’s country, not to its institutions or its office-holders.” ~Mark Twain

Patriotism isn’t just about declaring loyalty to the government or history – it’s about having pride in ourselves during the here and now. This country isn’t the hellhole that the Daily Mail would have us believe.

and

“Chav’s in diguise”

Damn this shit is pretty backward. It’s depressing how a newish word coming into misuse can excuse tons of pent up prejudice. Damn…

For what it’s worth, shop security guards have been asking kids to take off their hoods for as long as I can remember, AND the BNP are welcome to the English flag as far as I’m concerned. I need that back about as much as I need amniotic fluid and size 3 shoes.

I wonder where they stand on face Veils or any ethnic dress. Of course, I’ve hit on a great way of spotting the Chav’s in diguise – just look for the Burberry Jilbab.

I wore a hooded top when it looked like rain this week – despite being over thirty I still had a store detective follow me. The hood wasn’t even up. Mind you, he may have been following me because I have shifty eyes :)

Hey – Tony B and co have to look like they’re being tough on the causes of crime now they’re elected.

Does anyone else think the New Labour crackdown on ‘yobs’ is reminiscent of the Conservative crackdown on ‘new age travellers’. Politicians need to create an enemy to fight, a group for us poor citizens to be saved from by those wonderful knights in shining armour based at whitehall.

Clearly the real issue that the “Yobs” have nothing better to do, perhaps you should address that first?